Episode 14: With a track record for tremendous growth, Jeff Perkins shares his successful formula—including what CMOs can do to have more impact in the C-Suite.

Transcript

Rudy Fernandez 0:00

Hey everyone. On this episode, I spoke with Jeff Perkins, the Chief Marketing Officer of ParkMobile. It’s one of the fastest growing companies in the country. It’s an app that if it hasn’t already, it’ll change the way you park your car. Just a really smart guy. And I learned a lot from our conversation, he introduced me to a concept called velocity marketing, which is already changing the way I approach a client in new business. He talked about how CMOs can gain more support in the C-suite. And of course, what it’s like being the CMO, at a hugely successful startup, check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Earcon 0:30

You’re listening to Marketing Upheaval.

Rudy Fernandez 0:42

Welcome to Marketing Upheaval, my guest is Jeff Perkins, Chief Marketing Officer of ParkMobile, one of the fastest growing companies in the US. It’s a revolutionary app that allows you to find a parking space and pay for it. They have more than 15 million users. Jeff has worked on the agency and client side. He’s had tremendous success with growing startups and building a personal brand. And we’re going to talk about all of that. Thanks for joining me, Jefff.

Jeff Perkins 1:05

Happy to be here, Rudy. Thanks for having me on.

Rudy Fernandez 1:07

So just for listeners, can you give us a quick overview of what Park and mobile the company does and what the app does?

Jeff Perkins 1:13

Sure. So Park mobile is the leading mobile app for parking in the United States and North America, we help millions of people around the country find and pay for parking and do it right from their mobile apps. If you think about the old way you would pay for parking. Oftentimes, there was that one of these meters that required change and coins, and who carries around coins anymore, right. So we took that process of paying for parking, we brought your mobile device, making it easy reducing friction in the process, and also letting you pay for parking or extend your parking time when you’re away from your car. So it makes it just a lot easier than the old process paying for parking. Now we also offer parking reservations. So for sporting events, major events, concerts, you’re able to book parking ahead of time. So before you drive to the stadium for a game or a concert, you will know exactly where you’re going to park. So that’s a really nice feature. It helps people hopefully get to the events on time reducing some of that frustration in the process.

Rudy Fernandez 2:16

So I know the company started in 2008. But that’s something that wouldn’t, couldn’t possibly have existed not too long ago.

Jeff Perkins 2:23

Yeah, not in 2008. The reservations part of our business is relatively new, it’s been around for just a couple of years. And that’s something that we’re working towards expanding, not a lot of venues, not a lot of parking garages actually offer reservations today, so but in the coming years, if you live in the suburbs, and you’re going to drive into a city for meetings or an event, you’re probably going to be reserving parking, rather than just driving in and aimlessly circling the block looking for a place to park, we think it’s going to be a great way to help people just get from point A to point B and reduce friction in that process.

Rudy Fernandez 2:58

This is obviously brand new category, what kind of challenges and present being a brand new category.

Jeff Perkins 3:04

When we started the business in 2008, the idea of paying for parking on your mobile phone was really strange to people, because they were used to going to the meter, they had probably 50 years of experience paying for parking one way. And whenever you’re going to do a behavior change, that usually does take some time. So 10 years later, though, when you have millions of people who figured out you know what, this is a lot easier than the old way of paying at the meter. And they tell a friend and they go from Market to Market, we’ve really seen the growth of this network effect from our core business. So that business is growing very rapidly, we add about a million new users of our app every 60 days. And so it’s widely adopted, actually, when we survey our users, we find that there’s really no difference in the age breaks. So it’s not an app that’s used by a lot of younger people, it’s actually about 40% of our users are over the age of 50. And that’s just an indicator that we have a very mass application that a lot of people are using on the reservation side of our business that’s new. And that again, that is a behavior change. You are not used to prepaying for a parking reservation in a specific garage before you drive somewhere.

Rudy Fernandez 4:17

So a lot of what you do is then you sell the category right now since it’s so new, and you’re the top player, correct? Sell the pie as they say.

Jeff Perkins 4:24

Yeah, we’re not at a point in the category where it’s just death fight against the competitors to just show what we have this feature and they don’t have this feature. We’re in a point now where for all of us that that do this, the more we can grow the category, the better it is for everybody. So we’re really trying to just get that behavior change to make people think, before I leave my house in my car, do I know where I’m going to park at my destination? Fortunately, we have 15 million plus users of our app. So we can market to them very effectively when they’re in the app in the email bills that we send them. It just getting that word out

Rudy Fernandez 5:03

At the beginning a lot of new categories, people look at just acquiring new customers, and not looking at the long term and building your brand. How do you balance those two things where there’s so many new customers out there, potential new customers with long term, we have to focus on this brand, because there will be a time where people have to choose between ParkMobile and perhaps another company.

Jeff Perkins 5:25

Right. We have to do both acquiring new users really, it’s going to be the lifeblood of a company our size. That’s really fast growth. So we want to make sure we have a steady pipeline of new users coming into our business and we track it fanatically every day, how many users do we sign up and how many of those users converted into a what we call a Parker, so they not just downloaded the app, but then they actually did a parking transaction. It’s actually a very high conversion rate. But one thing that we did notice several years back is that we were just a leaky bucket for our users, we were just churning a bunch of users where they would a lot of one in Dunn’s and that’s very common in the app industry. I think the stat is about 95% of users who download the app. Don’t use it more than once. And we want to make sure we’re above that average.

Rudy Fernandez 6:19

Yeah. Wow. Is it that high? Yes,

Jeff Perkins 6:22

Yes. But that’s all apps, right. And you think about your own usage, you downloaded a game and you tried it once, it wasn’t fun, and you got rid of it several years ago, we said we need to not just focus on acquiring users, we need to also focus on engaging the users that we have, especially as we’re introducing reservations, introducing our users to this new way to park. So we implemented a software that lives kind of behind our app that lets you effectively engage with segments of users. And it makes it very smart. So you’re not just sending messages that are generic and broad and cover everyone, you’re sending messages to people who are in the city of Atlanta about what’s going on in Atlanta,

Rudy Fernandez 7:07

like events and things like that.

Jeff Perkins 7:08

Absolutely. So we actually do these weekly email blasts that are targeted by city. And generally those emails get a very high open rate and a pretty good conversion rate. Because it’s useful information to people that we know are living in the city about where they can park in the city for these big events. We also set up geo fencing within the app. So if you have the app on your phone, and you live in Atlanta, and you go fly to Washington, DC, and you rent a car in Washington DC, we will geo fence the rental car area. So as you drive out of the rental car area, we will serve up a pop up saying, “Hey, did you know you can use ParkMobile to also park in the Washington DC area?” Okay, just useful information that helps people and generally, as long as you are being useful with the information you provide, they will appreciate it. Now if I was just spamming people with, you know, use ParkMobile use ParkMobile use ParkMobile, they would get annoyed, they would delete the app or at least they would turn off notifications. But because we give them information that helps them through their journey. They appreciate that. And they use us more. And we saw when we started doing these kind of engagement campaigns, you actually saw the cohorts of the people who downloaded an app in a specific year, their usage started to increase and even all the way back to 2012. And you looked at the cohort from 2012. And a lot of that had dropped off. And then when we started re engaging that user, you saw it start to pick back up, which is really interesting. So we’re very focused on making sure we’re engaging with our users on an ongoing basis. Because over time, that’s what’s going to keep them engaged. And using the app

Rudy Fernandez 8:46

And building your brand to obviously exactly exactly what’s the buying cycle like what’s the number one source of new leads and new customers?

Jeff Perkins 8:55

The number one source of new leads, it usually happens when we open a new market. So as we go into new locations, that just opens up a lot of new opportunities for us to grow our base almost on a weekly basis, we’re opening a new market somewhere, which is great, because as soon as we open a new market, you’re just going to acquire a lot more users. And you’re also going to be able to market to our current users in that market who have the app but haven’t been able to park in their local area that hey, now you could use ParkMobile to park and specifically where you live. So whenever we get a foothold in the market, the next step is okay, where else around there Can we talk to that might also need ParkMobile, we work with over 400 cities across the country today. And that number continues to grow on a weekly basis.

Rudy Fernandez 9:42

When you’re growing so fast? And how do you staff for that? How do you plan on when you say million new users every 60 days do so obviously your your department has to grow? How do you do that, on that at that pace?

Jeff Perkins 9:57

Well, hopefully you’re hiring ahead of your needs. First of all, we are in a place right now where we’re really focused on scale. So in the last two years, since I’ve been here, we’ve reinvented virtually every department in the company, we have a new CTO, he’s brought in all new people, we have a new head of HR, she’s brought in a lot of new policies and procedures around that are going to help us recruit and retain our staff. And so every month that goes by, we’re just upgrading all of our current capabilities to scale for the future. We’re very focused on the next two to five years down the road. And we’re building teams that are going to help get us there now. So it’s it’s really an exciting time to be here. We’re very fortunate that we have two great owners of our company and BMW and Daimler. So two major automotive OEMs that have really helped us given us the resources to invest for growth.

Rudy Fernandez 10:57

You had talked about managing CO and you described your management style as a results oriented rather than or relationship oriented approach. What does that mean? I asked you this because, you know, you get I get emails all the time about being a, an empathetic manager, and it’s great. And sometimes it gets a little bit too much. In my opinion, that’s gonna make me sound horrible, doesn’t it? Obviously, you care about the people you work with. But I think there’s so much information about nurturing people, there isn’t a lot of information, usually headlines to talk about results oriented. So that’s why that that quote of yours really got my attention.

Jeff Perkins 11:38

Yeah. And it’s not to say I’m just a total jerk. But it’s more about I think, what some people are really good at that. And, and I’m jealous of those people, I often wish I was better at some of those things. And I actually I have to try, I make a lot of effort. So I’m, I’m not just driving so hard and trying to, you know, get get great results, it may not be a positive in a lot of ways, the way I operate, because I’m very, I’m very focused on the business, I’m very focused on output. And oftentimes, I will look past the people. And that’s maybe not the best thing.

Rudy Fernandez 12:29

Well, I will say this, people also like being on a winning team, right? Because I have seen offices, where they do the snacks and the birthdays and all that stuff. And this, this is not going well. And that’s not a happy office. Right. But you know, just being here, it seems like people pretty happy to be here. And and you’re doing well. And I didn’t see anybody tied up or anything. I think I can relate more to that sort of thing. You know,

Jeff Perkins 12:58

yeah, I think I have a very practical approach to the business, which is that if the business is not doing well, none of us are doing well. Yeah. And, you know, you want to have a fun environment, an environment where people are engaged and care about each other. And, you know, but at the same time, you can’t take your eye off the ball, you can’t overcompensate for poor performing business, with snacks, and foosball and those things. So what I’ve always done is like, let’s get our work done. And let’s crush it. And let’s drive some great results for the company. And then when we’re done doing that, let’s go get some beers and talk about you know, how great everything is and our families and our friends and get to know each other. Yeah, so I that’s kind of the approach I take. But I do try to bring on people on the team that are different than me. And I think that really helps ground me and I one thing I really appreciate is when people on the team come and say, Hey, Jeff, it’s so and so’s birthday. Today, we’re all going to go out to lunch. And I was like, thank you for for keeping track of that, because I’m horrible at that. So I do recognize that. I think part of that is a weakness. And sometimes when I hire I try to hire people that that fill that gap. I don’t want to hire a bunch of people just like me, because then we really probably would not have much fun as a team. But by building a team that, I think where we all complement each other. And you have some people who are the gunners and some people who are more the relationship people. It creates a really good dynamic.

Rudy Fernandez 14:41

It’s a great balance. Yeah. I love that your approaches to help people solve their problems like part where your app suggests, by the way, you’re in DC now, ParkMobile’s available for you. I love that.

Jeff Perkins 14:53

Yeah, yeah, we were very aware of the fact that we are a parking app, meaning that we’re probably not going to be top of mind for people every day. And we’re not super sexy app that they have on their phone. We’re not a social media app, right? We know that. So our goal with the way we interact with our users, even the way we designed the app is to be unobtrusive to the user experience, right? We’re going to send you information if it’s going to help you and be valuable to you. If your goal is actually to pay for parking as quickly as you can and then get out of the app. Yeah. But then we have alerts, if your parking is about to expire, we give you alerts. And that’s great, because then you know, oh, I have to extend my parking time love that feature. It’s our number one feature with consumers, they consumers really like the fact that you don’t have to run back and feed the meter. And you can just quickly and easily extend your parking time right from your phone.

Rudy Fernandez 15:53

I read you use a term once to general philosophy, I suppose and you called it velocity marketing. What is that? Can you tell me what that means?

Jeff Perkins 16:02

I worked in a lot of different companies and different sizes and different stages. And one of the things I noticed with Marketing Leaders is that there was a tendency to overthink and there was a tendency to be too cautious to go too slowly. And I took the opposite approach. And what I found is that I rather get stuff done quickly, and put some runs on the board and show that that I’m effective in what I do, and gain the trust of other people in the organization that “Oh, Jeff is really cranking through stuff” before I start taking on some bigger projects. Now, I was at a company a few years ago, and I started around the same time as another marketing leader. And we were the same level. And she was a she was excellent in her job. But she was very strategic. And she came and she immediately had this longterm vision that she was trying to execute against. And I took kind of an opposite approach where I saw some immediate quick wins. I said, “Well, we need a brochure for this because we’re going to a trade show. And hey, we need to redesign this page on the website”, “oh, we need to tweak this banner campaign”, “we need to update this messaging”. And those were all things that I knew we can get done very quickly. So my first three months in the company, I was just putting all these points on the board. And people were like, wow, that guy’s getting a lot done. Got it. That’s amazing. Meanwhile, my counterpart was doing all the right things, building a framework, interviewing agencies, building the team, putting a lot of foundational pieces in place for her big initiative. But everyone was looking at what I was doing and saying, “hey, that Jeff’s doing great work, let’s give him more work to do. Let’s get him on this task force, let’s put them in this new business pitch”, I got kind of the perception in the company of being someone who is highly effective. Because I was getting a lot of stuff done. Because I took this velocity marketing approach, I was putting a lot of runs on the board. My counterpart, unfortunately had the perception of someone who was too slow and effective. You know, you know, you’re in trouble when executives and company you’re saying, What’s that person doing? I really don’t understand what they’re doing.

And what it teaches you is that you have to build credibility with the organization is a marketer, not everyone understands how the sausage is made in marketing. And so if you come in, and you’re just kind of going to go into a black box and start doing marketing frameworks and hire a bunch of expensive consultants and go on whiteboards, and do a bunch of stuff, but it company is not seeing the impact, you are going to be at risk very quickly in your time year. Whereas if you look at what marketing could accomplish, and you plot out Well, these are things that we can do really quickly. These are things that are going to take a much longer period of time, do the things that you can knock out to show that you know what you’re doing, to show that you’re capable, because that will buy you the goodwill and the trust from your organization to do those big things down the road. So that’s when I talk about velocity marketing. It’s not just about constantly doing quick wins, and constantly trying to do tactical stuff. It’s about showing that you can get stuff done. So you are going to be able to do the bigger things over time.

Rudy:

That makes complete sense your inner trust at the beginning, it is great advice, even from let’s say an agency point of view, because often we’re asked, here’s our problem, how you solve it, and they want to know a process.

Jeff:

So you outline a process that normally doesn’t take that long, but it sounds like it takes a long time, she’s showing all the steps, and then they get a little like, wait a minute, we have to lunch in five weeks or eight weeks. So that’s a great, great advice, a criticism I have of our industry and marketers is that we have built a lot of constructs to make ourselves seem very smart. And we’re getting in our own way, you don’t need a committee and extensive testing to do some of the things that you can get done quickly. I mean, any good marketer should be able to walk into an organization and quickly identify five to 10, things that aren’t working and go and put plans in place to fix them. You don’t need a process or a framework. If you go to a CEO of the company, that CEO is not going to want to hear about all these fancy processes that you’re implementing CEO is going to want to know well, are we are we driving the business? Are we increasing revenue? Are we acquiring customers, and you have to do things that are going to show that all the fancy stuff that we make up and all the acronyms that we have you no one cares? Yeah, it’s all about results. And as a marketer, if you are not able to link your work, to tangible business results, you’re going to be in big trouble.

Rudy Fernandez 21:12

Deloitte just did a survey of CMOs, and in what it said was CMOs have more responsibility than ever before. Because now you’re not just responsible for the brand, let’s say or maybe even acquisitions. Now, it’s customer experience, and referrals. And internal communications even is now falling under marketing. And yet more CMOs are feeling less important within the C-suite. Do you think there’s a reason for that?

Jeff Perkins 21:39

Actually, I have not had that experience where I felt like inadequate in the C-suite or not really a part of the C-suite. And part of that is when I joined a company, I make sure I’m meeting everyone in the C-suite, I’m really connected with people in the C-suite. And especially with the CEO and the CFO, I spend a lot of time on those relationships, specifically. Because if you want to have influence in the organization as a whole, you have to have the respect of the CEO and the CFO. And you have to constantly report back to the CEO and the CFO, what you’re doing, you have to bring them in the fold. Where I think marketers sometimes get it wrong, is that you go off and you create almost the marketing team as its own company within the organization. And marketing is separate and different. And in some cases better than others, right? That’s a disastrous recipe for most Marketing Leaders. Marketing needs to be I believe the hub in many ways of the company, a team that’s working cross functionally with lots of different groups. One of the things I always look for in a marketing hire is how collaborative is this person, how much of a culture fit is this person, not just with the marketing team, but with the organization as a whole, because we have to interact with everybody, we can’t just stay in our section of the office and just try to get stuff done. We can’t do much if we don’t have collaboration with other groups. So it’s, I would say in every role I’ve had, marketing has been fundamental to the success of the business, if marketers are feeling that, like, they’re not having that impact, and they’re not part of the team, they have to ask themselves, am I had the right company? Or did I misunderstand this job description when I took the role, because marketing should be really important part of any organization. If that organization wants to grow, drive revenue, and improve results.

Rudy Fernandez 23:47

I’ve seen it both ways, though. You see companies like let’s say ParkMobile, where marketing is integral to the business. And then there’s some where it’s, hey, you’ve been here a long time, why don’t you be in charge of marketing, then you end up someone who does not expert at it.

Jeff Perkins 24:02

Right. And that usually doesn’t end well. In my experience,

Rudy Fernandez 24:05

No, no, from either end from our end, well either.

Jeff Perkins 24:07

It doesn’t. You see a tendency with a lot of companies, especially smaller growth startups, to neglect marketing at the beginning, maybe they’ll bring in a junior level marketer just to do a lot of tactical stuff that has to get done. But as those companies start to scale and raise money and grow, they start to realize, hey, we’re not going to get to where we want, unless we have a strong marketing function here. This happened in my last company, QA Symphony, where they had gotten to series A. And then they realized, hey, if we’re going to get to that Series B, and C, and keep this growth trajectory going, we’re going to really need to build out this marketing function to help fuel that growth. And so they brought me in as a CMO and the time the company was, was very small. So they may have probably hired a CMO before they needed a CMO. But the result, I think, was was very good in that we were able to grow that business from about a million to 20 million very quickly. And we raised 50 million in venture funding, because we’re able to build this lead gen machine and really show the revenue growth that marketing was was contributing to the organization.

Rudy Fernandez 25:20

And your personal story was, there was a point in your career where you realized, Oh, I need to focus on my personal brand. I was just talking to someone about this where there are people who do a great job, but they just don’t let everybody know about it. Can you tell me about that story, when you decided, hey, I need to let people know about all the stuff I can do.

Jeff Perkins 25:39

Sure, I was at a company and I had been there five years. And I just hit the ceiling. I didn’t see any further growth there. From a title perspective, I think I was a senior manager title. But I had, I had a $10 million budget. And I had a 15 person team that I had really grown from 215. And so I really felt like I was a marketing executive, I had a lot of CO exposure, I was involved in a lot of strategic discussions, as I made the decision that it was time for me to leave and pursue another role where I can continue to grow my career, I found that I was caught in this catch 22, where I couldn’t get a VP of marketing job because I didn’t have the VP of Marketing title. But I couldn’t get a manager marketing manager job because I was paid like a VP got totally screwed. And I said I something has to change. It just taught me an important lesson, in that if you don’t define yourself, somebody else will, right. So if I’m not telling people, I’m a good marketing executive, a hiring manager will look at my resume, just say marketing manager, I’m not going to interview this guy for VP of Marketing title. That’s understandable. So I said, I need to figure out what these companies look for in a marketing executive. And I just went on to think indeed, and I started looking at CMO and VP of Marketing, job descriptions. And they’re all the same. They said, we’re looking for someone who’s strong brand experience, strong experience driving revenue for the company, collaborative, you know, work can lead a team, all these things that I had done for five years. But how would anyone know that if I can’t tell my story, and if I can’t show them what I’ve done. And so I started writing a blog. And I think my first year writing I committed I was going to write like one blog post a week, every week. And then I just started applying to speak at events, then just things started happening. And an editor from Advertising Age called me said, “Hey, I liked I saw you speak at this event would you write for our blog”. So then I was writing for a national magazine, and I’m speaking at events, I have my own blog. And it just kind of started to snowball. And suddenly, Jeff Perkins, Senior Manager, became Jeff Perkins Marketing Executive, just because I put myself out there. And I started showing people that I was a marketing executive, not just hoping somebody would think I was a marketing executive because of bullet points on our resume. I changed the dynamic, I defined myself. And once I did that, that’s when I got the VP opportunities. The lesson is, is not that it’s about initially your personal brand. I guess that’s part of it. But the real lesson is that you as a professional need to figure out how you’re going to define yourself and get that message to people who may want someone with your skill set in their organization.

Rudy Fernandez 28:48

That sounds like an add on to your current job. That’s a second job, right? I mean, there’s some overlap, perhaps, but it is, if you want to make it happen. It’s sort of a second job.

Jeff Perkins 28:59

It can be a second job. It does take some work. And you have to think about all right, what am I going to put out there on social media today? Hey, I just finished this great campaign, I want to share some of the results in a blog post, you have to really be your own content marketing manager. To some extent, it doesn’t also have to be just content. That’s the thing. People come up to me all the time said, Jeff, I, I love what you’ve done. I’m a terrible writer, and I’m scared of public speaking. I said, “Okay, that’s fair”. I was like, but how are you with networking, I love networking, I would have lunch every day, if people would take my calls or meet with me, I was like, maybe that’s the way you define yourself. So instead of what I did, which was very broad going in front of audiences, maybe you just do kind of the ground war, you’re going person to person, figure out who you’re interested in meeting reach out to those people try to get coffees and lunches. That’s another way at it, where you don’t have to worry about not being the best writer and scared to put your content out there. But you can talk to people one on one, and make that connection that way. That’s also a full time job trying to build a network.

Rudy Fernandez 30:12

So on your website, one of the aspects I love is that you have a whole section that if someone has a problem with your app, you answer them in person, what brought that about.

Jeff:

So as a software company, we want to make sure that people aren’t just thinking of us as some kind of thing that’s like an app they’re using, right, we want to show them that there’s actually people behind it. And we see a lot of people come in very similar questions about ParkMobile or complaints. They’re all these things that come up very often. And so we just wanted to kind of be real and tell them, here’s, here’s what happened. Here’s the issue that you’re dealing with. Oftentimes, it’s not something we could control even. And we’re just trying to put a human face on what is a software centric, app centric brand, to make people better connected with us?

Rudy:

Yeah, of all the changes going on within marketing, what excites you the most and what scares you? What concerns you the most?

Jeff Perkins 31:08

Yeah, I think what I’m probably most excited about is just this continued push to be more relevant to the consumer that you’re dealing with, or to the in the B2B case that the customer that you’re dealing with, the tools out there today, have really advanced to the point where I could say, this is the exact kind of customer I want to reach, here’s what I need to say to that person that’s going to be relevant and get them to take some kind of action. I think, as a marketer, that’s kind of the Holy Grail. It’s the right message put in front of the right consumer at the exact right time. And we’ve talked about that concept for a very long time. But I think finally, now you start to see the technologies out there with some of the machine learning tools and some of the engagement tools where you can actually make that reality. What scares me with that, at the same time is marketers going too far, and marketers abusing some of this information that they have, with the consumer and breaking that trust? Yeah, I think I have a very high bar for a lot of the messaging that we put out to our users. I don’t want to be perceived as someone who’s just spamming and sending information that is not relevant. But I am aware that probably not ever every marketer is going to take the time and the care to really be the advocate of the consumer as they’re planning out their programs. And because of that, you’re going to probably see more regulation on what marketers can do more privacy acts that are going to prevent us from engaging with the right consumer at the right place at the right time. So that’s probably the biggest concern I have is that because of marketers are overreaching and who are behaving badly, it’s going to tie the hands of all marketers and the types of campaigns we’re going to be able to do in the future.

Rudy Fernandez 33:09

Yeah, that’s great answer. Thank you very much, Jeff, for being on this episode. This has been really enlightening. For me. I’ve got the audio notes, but I’ll definitely take notes. Thanks.

Jeff Perkins 33:18

Thanks for having me.

Rudy Fernandez 33:20

Hey, thanks for listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse. If you want to learn more about ParkMobile visit ParkMobile.io or download the app for show notes. previous episodes and previous to upcoming episodes visit us at CreativeOuthouse.com/podcast. If you like this podcast, please give us five stars. Subscribe, share it with your friends. Our producers Susan Cooper. Special thanks to Gopal Swami and Acoustech Music for creating our earcon, to Jason Shablik for his audio advice, and to Brad Goldman for his help getting Jeff on the show. That’s it for this episode of Marketing Upheaval. And remember the current state of marketing’s got you confused. Don’t worry. It’ll all change. See Ya.

Podcast credits:

Host: Rudy Fernandez

Producer and Cover Art: Susan Cooper

Earcon sound design: Gopal Swamy

Audio Consultant: Jason Shablik

Post production provided by: Music Radio Creative

Hosting provided by: Buzzsprout Affiliate Link

Transcripts by: https://otter.ai

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